Wednesday, February 13, 2008

The Outcome of The Fall

Did the outcome of The Fall of man just affect man and God? Or did it affect everything, is that why the world is so messed up? Where is the hope in all of this mess we find ourselves in? Why are we well aware that things are not how they ought to be?

Here is a video I made for our college group "The Well" last night. I went over the holistic nature of the fall, and the holistic nature of redemption that was foreshadowed and then seen in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, God's own son.


  1. Carlos, when you ask if the Fall *just* affected God and man, doesn't that fact alone ultimately mean that the Fall *did and does* affect everything? (The astericks are just for emphasis, since I can't do italics here.) Maybe I'm just looking at things from a perspective that is very different from that of most Christians, but seeing that God is the ultimate Creator of all things, and man has been given at least some degree of "control" over most of these things (which is not the same as God's sovereign control of them, obviously), when man fell, and it affected God and man, didn't that fact *necesarily* affect everything? Sorry for the extremely long sentence there, bro! :-) I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this question.

  2. I agree that, that perspective is so different than just my "personal relationship" with Jesus. What I talked about was that the moment man fell, his relationship with God was severed, it was fractured, God no longer was a loving father, but now a Holy Judge coming for the guilty, God never changes, but for the first time man was guilty, and thus hid.

    Man since being alienated from God, was now alienated from himself, he no longer knew his purpose, or had any meaning in life, which makes sense, if you lose your relationship with the one you were created for you lose who you are.

    Since man was alienated from himself and ulitmaetly from God, we are alienated from each other, we are so desperate to prove we are ok, and have purpose we use people for that end. we hide who we are from each other, we blame others for our lack of loveliness.

    We are also alienated from creation, If we are not in accord with the owner of the creation, how do we expect the creation to be in accord with us. Creation is no longer our friend.

    So Chris, to put simply, The Fall severs our relationship to God, and thus fractures all relationships.

    Sin is the issue that invades all of this, we are evil, sinners covered in this disease. If sin is the problem, the only cure is Jesus.

    In Revelation we see Jesus return and redeem all of creation, not just human, but all of creation. Since that is the work of the King we are to be doing that redeeming now as well, as we wait for the full consummation.

    Ok that was long, and incomplete but I hope that helps :)

  3. It does help, Carlos-- thanks. I think that it has been such a long time (relatively speaking) since I looked at Christianity as *just* a personal relationship with Jesus that I am taken aback to hear that so many Christians view it in that way. Actually, I'm not sure that I *ever* viewed it in the very reductionistic terms that many Western Christians seem to-- but if I didn't, that is only by the grace of God! May I always remember that fact in humility! Only God can bring true understanding-- we (I) don't bring it about ourselves. Thanks for taking the time for such a thorough reply, bro!